Monday, October 8, 2018 at 9:13 p.m. in the Kinlaw Boardroom.
The following is a transcript of an interest meeting held by Trevor Benson, a field representative for the Leadership Institute.
Editor’s Note:
Red: audio unclear.
Orange: Exact student identity unclear.
Student 1: Thank you for coming. Um, this is Trevor, he’s from the Leadership Institute. Uh, so, ‘cause I love this country, we’re actually gonna start off this meeting with, um, the pledge of allegiance, so if everyone could stand.
At this point, at least one student got up and left the meeting.
Student 1: Ok, thanks. Bye.
ALL: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic, for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Trevor Benson: Alright, um, thanks, everybody, for coming out today. Um, can we start off by everybody introducing themselves and why they’re here real quick?
Student 2: My name’s [Student 2]. I’m here because I’m interested in promoting the second amendment.
Student 3: Awesome. My name is [Student 3]. I’m here ‘cause I’m interested in whatever’s happening in campus life.
Student 4: My name’s [Student 4], and, um, I’m here because I am curious as to what this is, honestly, um, but yeah. I’m just curious, so, yeah.
Student 5: I’m [Student 5]. Yeah, I’m here — curiosity as well, just interested in what you guys are up to. Seems like an interesting club, so I wanted to hear more about it.
Student 6: I’m [Student 6]. I’m here because [Student 5] is here.
Student 7: I’m [Student 7]. And I’m here ‘cause [Student 1] just told me about this. So, yeah. You’re welcome. Thank you!
Student 8: I’m [Student 8]. Um, I like guns.
Trevor: Yeah, I can tell by your shirt.
Student 9: I’m [Student 9], I also like guns, but I’m also here for just more information and out of curiosity.
Student 10:I’m [Student 10], and I’m here — yeah, kind of just to learn more, just kind of see what’s going on and just kind of see if I’m interested in what you guys are talking about.
Student 11: I’m Student 11. I’m here with The Collegian, just taking some information, might turn into a story.
Student 12: I’m [Student 12]. I’m just curious to see how this whole meeting goes.
Student 13: I see. I’m [Student 13]. I, uh, met Trevor earlier today while I was kind of being an [obscenity]. Just being real, as you do. Uh, talked to him for a little while, he seemed like a nice guy, and I just kind of wanted to see what he was all about.
Student 14:My name’s [Student 14], and I’m just genuinely interested in what’s happening here.
Student 15:My name is [Student 15]. I, in my position on campus, kind of oversee a lot of the clubs, so I’m just curious about what’s going on.
Student 16:I’m [Student 16]. Uh, I like to know what’s going on at Asbury, so I’m here for curiosity.
Student 17:I’m [Student 17]. I saw the sign, so I came here.
Student 18:I’m [Student 18]. I like guns and the constitution and America, so.
Student 1: Uh, I’m [Student 1]. Um, come from a big gun family, the second amendment’s very important to me, so I’m trying to help start something up so we can kind of talk about it, and who knows?
Trevor: Well, uh, my name’s Trevor, and I’m with a group called the Leadership Institute. We’re actually a non-profit out of the D.C. area that helps, uh, students on college campuses start student organizations, and, uh, we do a lot of other things. We primarily do political technology training, so it’s not really like political, um, philosophy or anything. It’s actually like fundraising, um, campaigning, that kind of work, all kinds of special networking, public speaking. We have all kinds of things — writers’ workshops, stuff like that. So, um, and then we also, uh, do legal defense for students, um, who are being discriminated against by their school. And it doesn’t really matter, uh, what your views are. We’re pretty broad. We kind of defend students for free speech reasons, so like if you feel like — and this doesn’t necessarily apply to this school, it applies to public schools, which are affected by the first amendment — um, if you feel like you’re being discriminated against in any way, we’ll actually try to cover the costs and defend you legally. Uh, we also, uh, do media. We run the website “Campus Reform.” And so there’s actually some fliers going around. You can check it out. Campus Reform is our media site, campusreform.org, and it’s kind of a watchdog site for, uh college campuses and crazy abuses and other things that go along. Um, so we also do, like a lot of, uh career stuff. If anybody’s actually interested in interning, if you’re interested in interning in the D.C. area or getting involved in nonprofit work, um, we help find jobs for students that way. And we run, like a job bank. It’s probably the only job bank, um, of its type, but we’re generally a conservative organization, although we are pretty broad in that we’re also kind of libertarian. But we, uh, we actually work with a lot of different groups that even disagree with each other, so, like, for example, there’s a flier going around with some of the different groups we work with. Some of those groups are actually, uh, for open borders or pro-choice, but we still work with them, because they agree with us on enough other issues. But then there’s other groups on there that are pro-life, like Students for Life, and I know that there’s some students here at Asbury that are interested in a Students for Life chapter. There are students who are talking about getting one started this weekend. So, um, basically, we work with a number of second amendment groups. Obviously, if you’re here, you’re here because you’re interested in the second amendment someway or another. Either you’re opposed to it, or support it, or kind of curious or whatever. We do work with the NRA. The NRA has a collegiate chapter. So basically, it’s for college students. We also work with a group called Students for Self-Defense, which is a student-run student organization, and it’s a totally separate organization. And then there is Students for Concealed Carry, which is another national organization for students, and that’s also student-run. And so, all of them are a little bit different, but they’re all different national groups for gun rights. If you’re interested in doing a group that is not a part of a national organization, we also support that, too. So if any of you are actually interested, if there’s any other issue that you also support, you can talk to me and, um, we can see about what we can do to help you out, because I know there’s probably a lot of other … that you wouldn’t mind having a group for. So we can help you with that. Um, so one of the other things that we do for student organizations is bring speakers to campus. So we will actually cover the cost and fly them here and put them up in a hotel and cover the cost for whatever the school charges. So if there is anybody that you look up to that you would like to see, or if you would like to have a debate on campus around guns or whatever — I know some of you would be more interested in something like that — we can help you with that, too. So basically, for right now, I want to now many of you are interested in leading a gun group. This meeting is basically about choosing which gun group, so all the different groups kind of have their benefits. Obviously, the NRA, um, has a lot of respect from people because it’s a national organization. Um, but they’re also not as, like, I would say they’re as campus-oriented. I don’t know, it’s up to you. You can look into it. But some of the other groups that are more student-run do focus on a lot of other issues. One of them, students for self-defense, also focuses on pepper spray and other issues like that, self-defense-related. And so, you’d be surprised at how many campuses don’t even allow pepper spray in student vehicles. I was at EKU, and I met students there who told me that they carry pepper spray, girls told me that, and it’s actually not allowed there. So some of them have a pretty long walk back to their um, dorms. So that’s one of the things they’ll actually raise awareness of, and they’ll look into the school rules on that and try to raise awareness of it and bring speakers and debate the issue. So they don’t entirely focus on guns. Students for Concealed Carry is more like, obviously more specific towards concealed carry. And so, that might be like, you know, more what for a lot of people, and maybe some of you are more interested in, more like, generic kinds of issues, more than just concealed carry. So, um, also, it’s up to you, really. I know, is anyone here actually interested in — I know one of you is interested — is anybody else here interested in actually, like, leading a second amendment group.
[Student 1] raises her hand.
Student 1: Bam! I’m president.
Trevor: Well, basically, you would, like, be in charge of the whole thing — organize the meetings and, uh, be responsible for pretty much everything, right. We’ll help you with some of it.
Student 9: So, coming in, what is your general idea of a second amendment group being present on a campus like this? What would they be attempting to accomplish upon starting on a campus?
Trevor: Well, um, obviously like the gun issue is like a big issue nowadays across the country, so there’s obviously two sides to that issue. And most people are used to hearing at least one side, so, um, this’ll give people the opportunity to, uh, organize their viewpoint in favor of the second amendment. So, like, I said, they can bring speakers to campus and have debates and organize, raise awareness, support the second amendment in whatever way they feel is best to do that. So, um, and we have some pretty big-name speakers. I know Students for Self-Defense works with Ted Nugent. Different celebrities and people like that can come to college campuses. So, um, and that’s just, you know, one example. There’s a lot more serious speakers, too, and other professors, you can bring your respective people, other national leaders on gun rights. So, that’s pretty much all it is. It’s nothing crazy.
Student 9: More awareness than activism.
Trevor: Yes. It’s more awareness. You can do activism, there are activism projects that you could do. Um, the group Students for Concealed Carry actually does have an activism project you do, called like “an empty-holster protest” where they wear empty holsters. It’s like a national day. They do it, like every — they have a lot of chapters, there’s one at UK, there’s one, I think there’s one at Louisville, there’s, most big universities have Students for Concealed Carry Chapters, or they have another group. But, um, so they’ll do, there’s like a big national day, I don’t remember what day it is, they’ll all actually like wear empty holsters just to raise the fact they don’t allow concealed carry. And so, you know, obviously, if you support the second amendment, um, a lot of people who support the second amendment believe in concealed carry because it helps them self-defend. And there have been universities that have actually, um, changed their rules and allowed concealed carry on campus. So, um, they, believe it or not, it seems like maybe that stuff wouldn’t really work that well, but it actually does. I don’t know, but if you were to say, like which group of those three, like, Students for Concealed Carry, Students for Self-Defense, or an NRA collegiate chapter, which one would you be more likely to come to a meeting or support? Does anybody have, like, an opinion on it?
Student 5: I feel like they would be more receptive to self-defense.
Trevor: Self defense? Yeah, that’s the one good thing about them. And like I said, they’re more campus-oriented. They tend to, like, focus more on campus issues, whereas the NRA are like national, more basic. But if you do the NRA thing, the NRA groups will actually send you a kit. You know, name tags and things, stuff for your group numbers. So, most national student groups are like that, not just conservative groups. Liberal groups do the same thing. You know, College Democrats and groups like that, I’m sure they send, you know, stickers and stuff to their members. So, uh, anyways, if Jessica, or Student 1, in being the president of the group, do you have an opinion on those three? Is there one that you’d like to see here more?
Student 1: I think we should take a vote on all of them.
Trevor: Okay.
Student 1: You have a question?
Student 3: I do. Yeah, so, I think, even forget that point, I’m still a bit hazy on, so what is the goal of having these sorts of groups on campus, and what generally, when you guys start a chapter in an institution, what are you trying to achieve? And what does that actually look like? You mentioned UK, UL, different groups, how does it work? So what’s the goal for some of these?
Trevor: So basically, they just promote, uh, the second amendment, in favor of the second amendment. So that’s obviously, right now, there’s two different sides, and there’s people who oppose the second amendment right now. It’s becoming more and more of a big thing. So, um, a lot of students on campuses are more interested in, like, having another viewpoint or showing that not everybody on campus is of the same opinion, whatever. And so basically, it’s just to show their support for gun rights. That’s all it really is. There’s not much to it.
Student 13:Uh, so, just ‘cause I wanna just understand where you’re coming from more thoroughly, what would you say to someone like me, who’s not at all against the second amendment or against guns or concealed carry, but just does not think that that should be on a college campus? Like, why is that a thing that’s worth advocating for, in your perspective.
Trevor: Um, because, unfortunately, college campuses tend to be overwhelmingly biased, at least in the administration, um, that’s one of the things that Campus Reform does. We monitor universities. There’s studies that have been done on different universities, and it’s not unusual for different colleges to be like, 90 percent of the same viewpoint, at least in faculty. So, um, and by that I mean, like, left view. So there, obviously, there’s a lot of students around the country that are organized against the second amendment or for gun control or against the NRA or against whatever. And so, it goes, it’s basically providing a balance to that and showing that, you know, not all students are of the same —
Student 13:Yeah, but I guess, like what I’m asking, is more of a philosophical thing. Like, why is it, why is it better for concealed carry or open carry to be a thing on college campuses than for there not to be firearms on a college campus?
Trevor: Uh, well, because, at least among, like, second amendment supporters, many would argue that having the right to concealed carry on campus can actually prevent school shootings. There’s a correlation between mass shootings and gun-free zones, and so, in theory, were they not gun-free zones, this might stop definitely.
Student 13:Thank you for answering my question.
Student 4: Um, my first question is, um, what would that look like on a college campus that is Christian? Um, because we are a Christian campus. And what does it look like to, um, I guess, I’m confused on how it would look to advocate for, for guns on a Christian campus. And then, also, have you seen — is there, like any statistics showing that, um, there is a, like the percentage of violence or sexual assault has gone down in colleges that have the right now to carry guns, or is there any, like, hard proof that when we approve this that it actually solves the problems that we’re saying it needs to solve?
Trevor: Well, for the first question I think that, I think I don’t see an issue with it being a Christian campus if you’re supporting self defense or gun rights. So, would you see an issue with that? Why would you assume that?
Student 4: Because along with guns comes gun violence. And, I mean, it is what it is. I don’t, I’m not about to argue with you, I don’t really care, but, um, seeing it from the standpoint that there is going to be a lot of backlash here, and, like, so what would it look like? And then if we want to have that on campus, like, what are the hard facts? Like, what are the statistics that are showing this?
Trevor: Well, I think I’m going to have to get back you on the statistics because I don’t know statistics off the top of my head, but, um, that’s just a matter of opinion, basically, as to whether —
Student 4: So it’s opinion, it’s not —
Student 9: Student 4, I’ll talk to you after.
Trevor: There’s studies, there’s studies on guns, honestly, but like I said, I’m not an expert on the statistics on that. So, um, as, like I said, all I know is that there’s a lot of people in America who believe that the reason that we have guns is for self-defense and just to protect themselves. And most people who own guns aren’t criminals. So, you know, obviously if you tell everybody they can’t have guns, most criminals aren’t really gonna listen to that. If somebody actually has bad intentions, they’re obviously going to break the law in any case. So, um, like, people often say, “If you take away guns from people, only bad people are gonna have guns.” And so there is a correlation, like I said, with gun-free zones and mass shootings. And people tend to target areas that are defenseless.
Unspecified student: I have a question for the previous person who posed the last questions given. My question being to you, is, what would your opinion be, based on saying like, it shouldn’t be on a college campus? Like what did you mean by that? And then, um, a couple of questions for clarity. And then, to the man on my right, the question is, is there, I was wondering why there was the need to jump to guns and there being malintent behind it, and why there’s an assumption that there is, just because there is guns, therefore, there is gun violence. I’m not asking to poke at anybody’s beliefs — I’m just curious.
Student 13:Um, well, just saying right now that I am not as up on facts as I’m sure many of y’all are. I’m not as up on statistics. I don’t know too much, and I’m not gonna parrot anything back to you. Um, I come from a family and a dad who’s got a concealed carry permit, owns a couple of guns. Sometimes he conceal-carries, and I’m very aware there are plenty of good dudes with guns. I’m not gonna question that for a moment. But um, what I do look at is other countries with stricter gun control who don’t have this problem of mass shootings that we do. Um, and, all of us agree that no one wants school shootings, and I know that y’all are seeing, yeah, y’all are seeing that, like, further ability to carry guns on campus as a way to prevent that. And I think, I’m just looking at it in another way and seeing that, like, by disarming students and by making that, making this a place where there are not guns. Although, yeah, I see your point, saying “It’s like, yeah, there’s not going to be anyone who has concealed carry and who can stop someone as quickly.” However, I think that means that if faculty, if these security personnel see someone carrying a gun, they then know that that person has malintent. And I think that, um, that could be a way to stop this violence. That’s why I would see disarming a campus as better than arming everyone in a campus. And something to discuss with some people is that this is especially a time of a lot of emotion and a lot of stuff and a lot of — I don’t know, I don’t trust everyone here with a gun, you know? Um, so I wonder how wise it is to open-carry in a place with just a lot going on. I don’t know how wise, um, that would be, but at the end of the day, um, although we’re in different schools of thought, um, I just want to see less people die in shootings. And I believe that it’s better to disarm, at least within places like this, within densely populated schools, than to open-carry or concealed carry. But again, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with concealed carry.I don’t think there’s anything wrong with open-carry, in general.
Unidentifiable student:I’d like to respond, and I’d love to hear what’s your thoughts on that. My first thought is that there’s a difference between concealed carry and open-carry. A big point that you brought up is, if security were to see someone carrying a firearm — well, I think the question here is more about concealed carry. And therefore, the point of a concealed carry is that you’re not supposed to see anything.
Student 1: I just have a question, ‘cause I was, uh, wondering about what you were saying. ‘Cause you said your dad has concealed carry, and so did you grow up in a family-with-guns-type thing?
Student 13:Uh, he’s not like a big gun person. We just, father-son thing, we bond, we go shooting at the shooting range, stuff like that. And he was like, “Hey, I’d love to concealed carry,” so he got his permit. Um, he doesn’t concealed carry every day, only occasionally. Sometimes, uh, if he’s traveling by road, and he can do that, um, but to him it’s more of just, uh, feeling like he has security and if things get bad, he can help. If he sees someone in danger, he can help them. And, um, and I guess, like, knowing my dad, knowing that he’s a good and honorable, virtuous dude, um, I don’t see any problem with that. Um, but I guess like I just question the wisdom of that being a thing on a college campus where — I don’t know, maybe I just don’t trust people. Honestly, maybe, it comes down to that.
Student 1: But what I was trying to get at was, you had guns in your house, basically, growing up. So, because your dad was able to — if something were to happen, God forbid, something were to happen, your dad would be able to protect your family.
Student 13:Yeah.
Student 1: And so, as college students, we go and live on our own and, we come to live in dorms. Is that not — or do you not see that as an extension of our property? So why can adults protect themselves, like, at their house, but once college students turn 18, they’re a legal adult, but we’re still not allowed to protect ourselves and our property, which is the problem.
Student 13:Like, yeah, I absolutely hear that, and I wonder if it would be a better solution, to honestly better campus security because we don’t have very good campus security here. That’s just a fact, and that is a problem. And, I see people wanting to concealed carry as, um, as a way to make campus more safe, and I think that’s honorable as heck, you know, I’m not gonna deny that. I just wonder —
Student 1: Increase security though, how? I mean, security can’t be everywhere at once, so then how, in that case, is our, like — I mean, my opinion, at least, if my safety is my problem, like it’s left up to me. I can’t rely on other people. So, if you increase, I mean I come from a place where the campus, I don’t think any of you guys are aware, um, the University of Alabama, they have their own police unit and it’s bigger than Tuscaloosa and Northport City Police combined. So there are lots of them, but a lot of stuff still happens, so how can you fix — so, like I’m trying to understand your point because I feel like college campuses is a great place because it’s an extension of property. And campus security can’t be everywhere. I’m sorry, your turn.
Student 18:So I just have, kind of like, an experience thing to back this up, but also, um, carrying on with being at college. First of all, just my personal experience within the Christian community — you know, kind of to answer your question — is shootings within the churches happen. And all I know is that my pastor at my church, he does not carry, but we have people around our church that concealed carry, and he says “I feel safer every day that someone’s walking by me to the door, and I have people here who can protect me.” Um, but personally being here on campus, during the Run-Hide-Fight Drill, what do we fight with, a desk? If a guy comes in here with a weapon, which is probably not taken in a proper way because he is a criminal — and if we take away the rights, hence, the criminal can still get the weapons, and we have nothing to fight back with, except a chair or our books, or anything like that, what do we have? So I guess what I’m asking you is, in this environment, do you think a guy that’s coming in here, or girl, or anything that’s coming in here with a rifle or pistol, whatever you want, and we come at him with a pocket knife, or pepper spray, will we even get close enough? So, if it ends up with me hiding in the basement of the Stuce, does not feel very safe to me when they can just walk downstairs. So, the concealed carry, that a lot of us are debating here, saying that there’s malintent behind it, the malintent doesn’t matter because I know there’s a lot of murders a year in Australia by hammer, um, because they don’t have gun rights. And Chicago is a very violent place, and they have their guns taken away. So, my question is, are we taking our guns away to protect ourselves? Or are we taking the criminals’ guns away? Because drugs are illegal, too, and that’s a huge problem.
Trevor: That’s another thing you have to keep in mind. Criminals obviously aren’t going to let to listen to the laws anyways. All you’re doing is just disarming, um, people, who are scared. I see a question, first —
Student 7: Um, so I just kind of want to, like, touch on kind of what everyone has kind of already said already, but like, with security, I guess, like, as Jesse was saying, you know, we move to campus, and we leave our dads at home, or whatever, so like, security is like our dad. Okay, but even security here are not allowed to carry guns. They’re not even allowed to carry knives. So when you get the people that come on campus with either a concealed or a open-carry with the intent to harm people, what are our security people gonna do? Nothing. Because they can’t.
Student 1: I, I love how this is going.
Student 11:So then why don’t we just talk about arming security first instead of students?
Student 1: We can do that, too.
Trevor: Here’s something for everybody to, like, consider. Um. Apparently, so, um, in the states of Arkansas, Colorado, Georgia, Idaho, Kansas, Minnesota, Mississippi, Oregon, Texas, Tennessee, Utah and Wisconsin, concealed carry’s already legal now on public campuses, state schools. So you’re not seeing chaos happen there, um.
Student 9: So I just have logistical question. If, um, say this chapter were to plant on this campus, we would get a group going, awareness were to carry and so on and so forth, this would be going to a state political level because, as it stands currently, um, castle law is the only thing that allows a student to have a gun anywhere near campus, save being in their vehicle. Correct? So, if somebody were to keep a gun in the dorm, which is technically school property, that would technically be the rules that the school and their freedom have stepped on a limb to prevent.
Trevor: Yeah, it would be up to the school to decide that.
Student 9: So as it stands, being this is a private university, even in the state of Kentucky,they could, as their own institution, choose to go forward and change rules, if they so desire?
Trevor: As far as I understand, yes.
Student 9: Okay.
Trevor: The school can pretty much do whatever they want.
Student 9: Okay, that’s all I had to ask.
Student 4: Um, so someone asked me some question, er, in the past, before. So, like I’m not coming from — I’m coming from a place where, um, I have grown up, I have lived in Kentucky. I have lived in Mississippi. I have lived in Chicago; I’m from Chicago. So I’m growing up in a place where people I know, I have too many friends who have been shot and killed. Period. And, um, coming from an America where, um, there is a lot of gun violence, and I’m not saying that, that we shouldn’t have guns, but I’m saying that with guns comes gun violence. And there is no protest to that because it is true. Um, regardless, like, that doesn’t really matter. With guns comes gun violence. And I don’t trust, on my campus, um, my professors and the security here enough to know that they, in any instance, could be — feel like they are unsafe in any way and something bad happen. Anything can happen when there is a gun involved, and I’ve seen too many instances. For example, like, in Louisville, like, just last year, with that kid in that high school that got beat down by the police officers. You can say that he felt like he was, he was scared for his life, I mean, anybody can say they feel scared for their life in any way. I don’t feel safe enough, I don’t trust, like Student 13, I don’t trust people enough, to, um, trust them with guns. ‘Cause at the end of the day, I’m a black woman in America. I mean, that’s just my opinion. Y’all may feel differently because you all have different experiences, and we all come from different backgrounds. That’s just how I feel. And also, coming from the fact that one of our professors, um, was suspended for having a fake account, um, and he was obviously racist. So I don’t, um, I don’t feel protected, especially on Asbury’s campus, knowing that there are professors and there are security guards who would have guns. That’s just my opinion, and, um, I would be extremely open to having a conversation with people to know everyone’s opinions, ‘cause I’d like to understand where you’re coming from with your perspective.
Student 1: How would you feel protected? Like, how?
Student 4: I feel more protected knowing that, um, we all don’t have guns, than, um, everybody having guns. But that’s just how I feel, I mean, that’s just my opinion.
Student 1: As it stands right now, ‘cause, like, I mean, students can’t be armed, professors can’t be armed, security can’t be armed, do you — I mean, your opinion right now, do you feel that Asbury is a safe campus? I mean, it also helps that we’re in Wilmore, and it’s not a big thing. But, I mean, do you feel safe on this campus right now?
Student 4: I mean, I never feel safe. But I feel as safe as I can possibly feel on a college campus.
Student 1: Uh-huh. So right now, I mean, you feel safe, you don’t feel — I mean, okay, like you said, as safe as you can, so —
Student 4: Yeah, I feel as safe as I possibly could be.
Student 1: What do you think — I see you, I promise, um, but, so, to take it that next step, in your opinion, like, what, what could, I guess, the university as a whole do to make you feel even safer. Like, this, is kind of an open campus, but, I mean, you swipe in and out to get through the dorms, so, do you have any ideas of what that extra, added layer of security could be to make you feel very safe? And you never want to feel completely safe and let your guard down, but, I mean, is there any ideas that you would have?
Student 4: Um, I mean, honestly, I feel like, I can’t say that Asbury’s doing all they can to make us feel safe, ‘cause — I don’t mean that. But um, I just feel like, honestly, in my opinion, I’m never gonna feel safe. Uh, but that’s a whole ‘nother, other story. But, uh, I just feel like, right now, yeah. I feel like there’s nothing else that would make me feel safe. Maybe, I mean, like, maybe if we had pepper spray, ‘cause I feel like you can’t kill nobody with pepper spray. So, maybe we could do, like, I, apparently, I didn’t know we weren’t supposed to pepper spray, ‘cause I carry it, but I, like, I carry pepper spray.
Student 1: So you could get behind something, like more of, like, maybe the Students for Self-Defense that doesn’t focus on strictly concealed carry but looks at different avenues, like pepper spray.
Trevor: Yeah, that’s something to consider, like the groups that we’re talking about aren’t just necessarily focusing on concealed carry, unless you’re interested in having the Students for Concealed Carry on campus. The other two groups are more generic. They tend to focus on just gun rights in general, and, like she said, pepper spray, stuff like that.
Student 3: Okay, so, excuse me for saying this, but, I think we are absolutely missing the point of why we came here. And I think the fact that we’ve had this conversation for thirty minutes now shows that there’s a conversation that really needs to happen prior to gathering to discuss something like the formation of such an organization. So, I think, just humor me, with this real quick. I know you’re not from here, right? Are you from Asbury?
Trevor: I’m from Virginia.
Student 3: [to Student 1] Okay, what about yourself? Are you, like a current student at Asbury?
Student 1: Yes.
Student 3: Okay. Is this your first year?
Student 1: Yes.
Student 3: Okay. Cool. So I think, understanding the context we find ourselves in, I think it’s helpful to first lay some ground rules on, or just facts that help us understand the context we find ourselves in. So Asbury has had zero murders since 2014. We’ve had an increase in forcible sex offenses. So there were three in 2016. Um, and we’ve had five cases of vandalism, two cases of stalking. Um, those are the kind of crimes that have been committed on Asbury’s campus. But I think, much more importantly than that is the fact that Asbury is not just any other institution. And so I’m just gonna quickly read to you guys, um, Asbury’s mission statement because I think that is a powerful discussion to keep in mind as we consider bringing all these things, um, to our campus. And so, it says: “From its beginning, Asbury University has been distinctive in the culture of its day, not for the sake of being different, but because the University possesses a different world view. Integration of academic excellence and spiritual vitality requires training which is clearly different from the larger world’s perspective. During the course of our history, the community has established guidelines, which are examined and cautiously revised in order to maintain its heritage and mission in an ever-changing world. While these guidelines may be examined and altered, it is absolutely essential that we remain totally committed to the Asbury University heritage of Christian faith and grace and to the concept of a dynamic Christian community.” And so I think, a lot of the conversations we are having right now are indications that we have way different worldviews when it comes to our perceptions of gun rights. And so, I think — it, it, it feels slightly like we’re jumping the gun, excuse the pun, to get to discussing the formation of such an organization when we’ve spent 30 minutes deliberating on “my background” and “what I think about this issue.” And so I think, if we moved on with something like this, the logical end for such a program, when we’ve not done the groundwork of figuring out where we actually stand — and I totally respect the fact that we’re supposed to be creating conversation. I think, if that was the goal, we are well on the way to success. But, if we’re trying to discuss other things without addressing the conversation on how our peers in lots of different institutions are being murdered by guns and the fact that we come from different worldviews where our families have used guns and good people own guns, but now we find ourselves in this point in history where we’re struggling to compile the two, when we know our dad who has guns, and we know our friends who have died from gun violence, you know? And if we skip over that conversation, we will inevitably create a culture at Asbury where, like every other institution, we’ll be fighting speakers, and we’ll have a parade out on the streets because we haven’t taken the time to actually deal with what it means to be Christians in this context who seek a difference and who take the time to deliberate in godly community before getting to address all of these socio-economic problems. That’s just my two cents.
Student 7: Thank you, Student 3. I have a question, real quick, um, so, I mean, you’re talking about the worldview. Um, so do you support, like not even just guns, like the whole gay rights and the whole, like, pro choice or pro life? So, like, I mean, what about that?
Student 3: Right, so, I’m just going to ask you a quick question. What were you trying to get at with that? Because I think, yeah —
Student 7: So like, you’re trying, and I understand, you know, Asbury says like we’re gonna stick to the Christian, um, well, we’ll say Christian morals no matter what the world does. But we have to look at Asbury and what they have done. Have they really stuck to those rules or those morals?
Student 4: We’re coming from a Christian perspective where that doesn’t matter. As a Christian, your main thing is to do everything out of love. So if you can’t do it out of love, then why are you doing it? So the question is, if, um, we are talking about having guns on campus, are we doing it out of love? If everything we do as a Christian, and you may not be a Christian, but this is a Christian campus, is out of love. So now we’re thinking, from a Christian perspective, it doesn’t matter what Asbury does. We are all Christians. It doesn’t matter. Like, um, with that perspective, you can say that “Okay, because he’s a Christian and he’s out there murdering people, I can murder people, too. That doesn’t really matter.” Um, just because Asbury hasn’t always held up to their Christian morals doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t. And that is what [Student 3] is getting at — that as Christians who go to Asbury, we have a right and a commitment to upholding our Christian views. That’s what he’s saying.
Student 9: I’ll say we honestly, in this room, we all do want the same thing, and that’s why we’re here. We all are wanting a safe campus, and I think it’s just the question is the avenues that we arrive at that. So if we could probably just keep as much political stuff out of it, ‘cause I don’t think the political avenue is necessary to arrive at a conclusion where we are both on the same page, realizing we’re on the same team, wanting the same things, to discuss those avenues. So, to keep emotion at bay, um, because let’s just stay to the point of why this organization should be on campus and what it could possibly do to make our experience at Asbury better.
Student 11:I do have question. What did bring you to campus? Did someone contact you, or did you just find out about —
Trevor: I’ve had a lot of students contact me. I work with students in the state and across the country.
Student 4: She’s had a question.
Student 17:So, um, [Student 15] and I both, um, serve in student government here, and before you can actually have a club on campus, there is a process, which I know that you have looked into. And I really feel like, like Student 3 says, that we are skipping over a fundamental issue here. And before we start a club or we start a proposal even, I think that there are other avenues to have this conversation because, as you can see, there are a lot of viewpoints, and people wanna have this discussion.
Trevor: Well, here’s, here’s the issue. The student organization is for people who support the second amendment. That’s the equivalent of having a student organization, like, that used to be here called Sacred Life — it’s a pro-life group. You could have pro-abortion people come to the meeting and then stand up and say they disagree with it, but that’s not the point of a pro-life club.
Student 17:Exactly. What I’m saying is, if this is a conversation that just needs passion about, this is a conversation that students are passionate about, there are multiple avenues to have this. We could have talkback sessions. We used to have a thing called Boom Talks, where those would replace Gather every month. You can talk to student government and student development about ways you wanna have this conversation because before we go about and have a club, we do have other clubs you might like to join and have those conversations. But I think before we start a club, which I’m not saying, if there should be a club or not be a club, there are other avenues that we can walk down before we, we write a proposal to have a club. Also, there, like you have to find a faculty member to support you. And I’m not saying somebody won’t, but also, Asbury stands on the policy that we don’t have guns on this campus. Professors and security don’t. And I don’t see, I don’t see that changing in the near future. I might be very wrong, but I just feel like there are different avenues to walk down before we start a club. I think that this is a great discussion. I think that this is a discussion that people would thrive having, and I think it’s something that, as young adults and Christians, we should be having, but I think that a club might not be the most beneficial.
Student 1: Well, like, I hear what you’re saying, and, like, there’s a lot of different avenues like you’re saying, and so, I don’t know if this is relevant or whatever, and I don’t know if you guys might be like “Oh, she’s a freshman” or whatever. So, like, I’m gonna give you a little bit of background about myself. Um, this isn’t my first rodeo or whatever. Um, my mom is one of the founding members of the shooting sports club and the gun club in my hometown. Um, she has done Apples-meet shoots, which is a weekend event where you actually hard-train on rifles and you can, at the end of it, you are a certified marksman. Um, my sister has joined Students for Concealed Carry on her campus and is helping to promote that club and is working with it. She has written an essay on the second amendment and why it’s important and won a trip to Washington, D.C. to talk with a whole bunch of people and learn, again, more marksmanship skills. We’re a family who’s out at the range and drilling and practicing. I mean not every day because we have jobs and stuff, and we have like a life that we have to do. But we’re a very, very gun family. I’m not just some crazy person who’s like, “Oh, I like guns” and coming to start a club or whatever. Um, my senior year of high school, I started my own business, which is now grossing over a hundred thousand dollars per year. After high school, I took a gap year, and I traveled the entire United States. I spent time up in Colorado, Wyoming, Indiana, Nebraska, South Dakota, I mean, pretty much all over the place. Um, we traveled around a lot; my mom has literally traveled the world, so I’ve definitely seen a lot of different things. And I come from a lot of like, I haven’t lived there long enough to experience the culture, but at the same time, I’ve, I’ve been places. Um, and so, I think it’s important to have a club and not just, you know, kind of an unofficial get-together or whatever because I think a club can help. Um, and not only that, it’s like, I don’t, I don’t think — first off, change is always possible, um, and whether that’s pushing for concealed carry, which I don’t believe is going to happen in the near future, but we can push for other self-defense, like, um, like pepper spray or other things. But I think that is a good purpose. And not only that, but a club can help get students together. Students will feel more, like, supported, if it’s in an official club and not just like a small get-together, ‘cause that’s not very professional, and it doesn’t look organized. But if you have a club, then students with similar, um, beliefs can get together and help each other and, like, support each other. I mean, it’s like, it’s kind of when you meet someone who likes something that you do. You bond. You can help each other. So I think, um, we are going to continue on creating a club. Um, I’m all for it. I’m ready to go, um, or someone else. I mean, I don’t mean to take over, but, um, I’m all for it. I talked to Trevor. I’ve gone to Transylvania University and kind of seen what they have, and I’ve talked to their students there. Um, and so, I mean, we’re gonna do it right, but I am very, very interested in starting a club. And that’s why we’re having this meeting. I wanted to see kind of what the students besides me wanted, whether it was self-defense or concealed carry. And once we start that club, then we can kind of figure what exactly we want to do with it.
Trevor: And like I said, we can have, like, clubs that are kind of open to everybody, that everybody can discuss, but that would be defeating the purpose of a, y’know, pro-second-amendment club, ‘cause like having a pro-life club and having people that support abortion there and saying “Maybe they shouldn’t have a pro-life club” — that would defeat the purpose of a pro-life club or a Christian group. We work with a lot of Christian student organizations, the attorney group we work with is Alliance Defending Freedom, and they’re a charitable Christian attorney group. They’re one of the powerful groups in the country. And they can have Christian student clubs, and you can have other people of faith show up and say, “Maybe we shouldn’t have this club, you know, there’s other people of faith here.” But that would be defeating the purpose of a Christian club.
Student 4: Then what is the purpose, then? Because I feel like, it doesn’t make any sense to sit in a room with people who are like-minded and talk about how we are like-minded instead of being in a room with people who do not have the same belief with you, so that you can have that conversation, maybe respect them and get things to start, to start circulating.
Trevor: Well, we would promote the second amendment. They’re pro-second-amendment speakers and pro-second-amendment activism.
Student 4: But what I’m seeing from her is that she actually wants change, and if you want change, you need to change people’s minds. And you can’t—
Student 1: Okay, but like that, for me, that’s way down the line.
Trevor: Let’s go to [Student 15].
Student 15:Um, I just have logistical thing. I oversee all the clubs on campus, and we have, like, I had to take six or seven off my roster this year for SGA because clubs have this, this tendency to gain a lot of—
Trevor: And then go away.
Student 15:And then just disappear. So like, we have Young Americans for Freedom, the chair of that is like, “Guns, Guns, Guns!” So like, and like, we have a Sacred Heart Life in existence, but no one’s running it.
Trevor: Yeah, I think they’re gone.
Student 15:So, I mean, like, we have a professor who’s an advisor, so like, my thought is, could we try to work with, like, Young Americans for Freedom? Or we have someone starting Young Americans for Liberty.
Trevor: Well, they don’t offer the same things, and not everybody supports Young Americans for Freedom. Young Americans for Freedom has different views. Like, for example, Young Americans for Liberty is one of the biggest in the country, very similar to Young Americans for Freedom, but they’re anti-war, and they, um, there’s a lot of issues that they disagree with them on. So they don’t get along at all.
Student 15:And we have like, a Young Americans for Liberty group starting, and that’s why I’m saying, like—
Trevor: Well, Young Americans for Freedom are different.
Student 15: No, we, I, I understand that, but, like, I have a club proposal on my desk for Young Americans for Liberty.
Trevor: Well, that’s what I’m saying. They’re very different groups. That’s why they’re—
Student 15:Yeah, and I’m saying, like, would it, like, is it something where we could like, try to work and talk to people who have similar views—
Trevor: Here’s the issue with, like, that situation. Young Americans for Liberty was started by someone who Young Americans for Freedom condemns. So it’s very, it’s not really fair to tell somebody who supports Young Americans for Liberty, or who’s anti-war, to join a different club just because you think it’s the same when it’s not, because, like I said, they don’t have the same—
Student 15:I realize that in terms of like, in terms of viewpoints and that all of our viewpoints are going to be different, but on a college campus as small as ours, just the logistical aspect of keeping a club going for that long — like might it not be better to have a club that has different views and actually has some, like, stimulating conversation, rather than a club that just fizzles out in three years?
Trevor: Well, that would depend on the leadership and whether they actually hand it off to somebody when they graduate. You know, I mean, it’s, I don’t see anything wrong, like I said, you want to have — like, if there are students in here who would like to have, like, a gun control group or whatever, there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s good to have as much student activity as possible on campus. Actually, you’re very lucky if you can get students willing to start a club because, surprisingly, it’s, you know, most students don’t want that responsibility. So I would say, like if you actually have students who want to start a different club, I would let them do it, and I wouldn’t—
Student 15:I do, and I emphasize that, but I also realize that, like, if each year we’re taking six or seven clubs off of—
Trevor: Yeah, but—
Student 15:Off of the, like, the ASC roster, like, they’re putting in a lot of work—
Trevor: Yeah, I got you. But that’s normal, ‘cause I work with UK and other schools, and they go through each year, and they just — they actually make them reapply each year. So if you don’t reapply in time, you just get wiped out of the database and start fresh new.
Student 15:Yeah, we don’t even have a re-application process, but it’s, like, might their effort in, like, doing all this, this starting a club, be put and used more efficiently into, like, making a club more friendly to other views? Like, might it be better to focus their efforts for the sake of, their efforts as valuable, into consolidating these groups and making them last?
Trevor: Well, that would, I don’t know, ‘cause then you’d be, I mean, that’d be different from every other college in the country.
Student 4: We are different.
Student 15:But why? Do we do things because the masses do them? Just like — what’s your name?
Student 4: [Student 4].
Student 15:[omitted]?
Student 4: [Student 4].
Student 15:Just like she’s saying, why would we huddle up with people who think exactly like us?
Trevor: Well, that’s like saying, why do you have a Sacred Life club?
Student 4: But that’s — but you’re not getting what they’re saying, you’re just running circles around what they’re saying. We’re not trying to say that having a club is bad—
Trevor: The issue is—
Student 4: Can you listen to what I’m saying? They’re not saying that having a club is bad, they’re saying that they want them to thrive. They genuinely want —
Trevor: I know, I get that —
Student 4: But not, that, listen to what I’m saying. They want the club to thrive, so what they’re saying is, can another club that also agrees with the same things that she agrees with, can they not come together? Like, ‘cause —
Trevor: Yeah, well I —
Student 4: But let me finish. She genuinely wants, and she wants people who are with her, so why can’t she join another club who also has those same positions?
Trevor: Name me a club, then, that you think —
Student 4: We can find one.
Student 15:Yeah. Young Americans for Freedom, their chair is —
Trevor: I told you the issue with that, and that Young Americans for Freedom, Young Americans for Liberty, these clubs—
Student 4: But we’re not trying to join them, we’re trying to conjoin her with Young Americans for Freedom or Liberty. We’re not trying to conjoin all three of them. That’s not what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to join her, her, with another club who also agrees with her positions on gun violence, on — sorry, the second amendment, her pro-second amendment, like I don’t understand why she can’t just join another club that also agrees with her views. Like I don’t, what, what is the problem with that?
Student 1: I mean, for me, like, I’ve talked to Young Americans for Freedom, and they’re great and they have their stickers and stuff, like, I mean, but, whoop-de-doo. Like, I’ve talked to them about it, but, for me, it’s like, it doesn’t, like — I have the right to start a group just like anybody else, um, for whatever belief.
Student 16:Do you have a faculty advisor for this?
Student 1: No, this is the very first —
Trevor: We, we have—
Student 16:You should have consulted our faculty before —
Trevor: We have talked with faculty.
Student 4: What? Who?
Trevor: I’m not gonna name names, but we have conservative faculty members.
Student 4: But then, why can’t you tell us that?
Trevor: Because we have unknown dialogue.
Student 4: So you don’t have a faculty member.
Trevor: Well, I’ll say this. There’s already conservative groups on campus with faculty advisors.
Student 4: But that’s not what I asked.
Student 18:Okay, well actually, can I, for one second, um. So, uh, first of all, the thing with joining multiple groups, that kind of defeats your purpose as you were kind of saying “Why don’t you join a group with the same views?” That’s the same thing as saying, you were saying, “Why would you start a club with the same views, ‘cause it would just be like a mash-gab?” That’s the exact same thing that you were kind of saying there, kind of, like joined in with each other. But the fact is, is like, she wants to start another group. I want to be in the other group. I’ve looked around for clubs also. There’s two people there. Uh, I know there’s people, multiple other people. I know conservative, um, faculty members, and the fact is, is, yeah, we can join other groups, and we can join other things, but maybe a group of people who all believe the same thing and wanna talk about it can talk about it and make something happen. The same reason that we have the bands that are going on right now, that’s so that we can all come together and talk about something and make something happen in our lives. Well, we want to come together here to make something happen in other people’s lives and our lives. And the thing is that, what we wanna do here and why we came tonight, and I know a few came here tonight, first of all because there’s been, like, offensive other posters that have been put up, is the fact that, um — not offensive, just contradictory — is the fact that, I feel like, not everybody here came here to talk about the club because that’s what the fliers say. So just the fact that coming here was to fight against.
Trevor: Yeah, that’s the point of an issue advocacy group, that you advocate for whatever the issue is that you believe in. So, if you’re just —
Student 14:My comment’s kind of what you’re just hitting at the end, ‘cause that’s why I’m a little confused, um, and you said the only reason you’re doing this right now is ‘cause you’ve had so many e-mails, people asking for this to happen. Where are they right now?
Trevor: Well, a lot of them are in bible study because apparently bible study takes place at nine. Yeah, I didn’t realize that, so —
Student 14:These fliers went up, and like, I’ve been at Asbury for a little while now, and I try to stay in the loop of like, conversations that are happening here. And there’s been like, no one really cares about this and wants this on campus. And like, in fact, when the fliers went up, people either thought it was a joke or took them down. It’s like, like, where are the people who are interested in this club?
Trevor: Well, here’s the issue. There’s a real disconnect between students and faculty and the people and universities. If, you would do a poll on gun rights in this area, overwhelmingly, most people would say they support the second amendment. But, obviously, I think most people recognize that there’s a real issue in the country with bias at universities — specifically left-wing bias, especially among faculty and discriminating against conservative students and trying to stop conservative student organizations from happening. And that’s why we have the Alliance Defending Freedom, who defend students, because it’s such a common issue, trying to, like, take down fliers or whatever. Yeah, that’s funny, but that’s a real issue around the country. And it tends to be conservative students who they try to stop from forming groups.
Student 14:Yeah, and I’m not like taking one side or another, it’s just, like, confusing to me, why there would be, like, advocacy for this club, but there’s like maybe three people here who are actually interested.
Student 1: Well, I know, okay, like, what we were saying, like, I’ve talked to a lot of people about it, and I know at least, like, right off the bat, five people who wanted to be here. But, I mean, it’s midterms. Like, they’re studying for midterms and stuff. But even, still, well, let’s just say, let’s just say it was just me, okay? Let’s just say it was me. Um, I mean, I still can start a club and be a party of one.
Student 15:You have to have six people to start a club.
Trevor: Yeah, we can get six people.
Student 14:There’s a process at Asbury, like we’ve talked about.
Student 1: But also, what you were saying, is like, you’ve talked to people, and they don’t seem to care. I just, I personally feel that, yeah, people might be like, “Yeah, I’m pro-second-amendment,” or, I mean, whatever, but none of ‘em have gotten up and started a club. But if the club has already started, then it might get students more involved. And the thing is, we want students involved. Like, we don’t want, I mean, the whole thing about Asbury is to kind of come, grow, but also, like, challenge your beliefs. That’s literally what we’re learning about in English class, like the benefits of my liberal arts education to, you know, I gotta take classes I don’t really wanna take, as you know, gen-eds and stuff. But, so, I think if we start a group going, then it might start, um, like a fire, it might start people kind of discussing it, whether we’re pushing for change, or we’re just pushing to just talk to opposing views, it can start people to care, because we need people to care, like, in our generation, about democracy and about, like, your voice to make a difference.
Student 4: I think we’re getting a little tense. So this is just a reminder to, like, remember that, what, I think nobody is, just a reminder that no one is trying to stifle your experience or the way that you feel. Like, so even though some of us don’t agree with you, we still care about the way that you feel. And I think the people who are here from like, SGA and whatever, so I don’t want you to feel like it’s, that we don’t want you to have a second amendment club, because, genuinely, like, I don’t want you feeling like we’re trying to invalidate the way that you feel, your opinion or your experience.
Student 13:Um, just, real quick. Um, I think people, especially — I mean, I’m a senior — I’ve been here for a while, and when I entered school here, I was pretty dang conservative, and then, as many do, I, um, just kind of, my opinions changed; the way I see the world has become different. But I’m gonna be real: like, that’s in spite of a very conservative school. Um, we, if anything, we have more of a disconnect between students and professors in a different way. We have most — at least, professors that I’ve had, have been either outspokenly very conservative or still more on the conservative than liberal, more on the right than the left, America-wise. However, I did a poll, just about a year and a half ago, um, and tried to share it on social media to get it to as many students as possible. And we’re pretty split in half, uh, left and right, as to how people voted and how people saw the last election and how they interacted with that. So, um, I guess, like, I’m just wondering what representation looks like for, uh, both left and right wing groups, and, um, I’m gonna be real. I don’t know too much about how, um, student groups are formed, and I’m not gonna pretend I do. But I think that this school is one that it just, it looks different. And yeah, Wilmore is a very conservative area, uh, Jessamine County, uh, very, very conservative, and I think students here, we’re very split. It’s not like we have lots of conservative students that feel like there are no conservative profs. There are plenty of conservative profs. There are plenty of liberal profs, but, like, I guess, like, what I’ve seen — I never felt like, especially when I was more conservative, that I didn’t have anyone I agreed with. And now that I’ve become more on the left, I still don’t feel like I have, like, a lot of people I disagree with. In fact, it’s just been a different experience, and it’s not been one that — okay, I tried to keep that quick, and I failed, but —
Trevor: No, that’s interesting because I’ve heard, you know, obviously the opposite from students.
Student 13:Really? That’s really interesting to me. I wouldn’t have expected that.
Trevor: I’ve heard a lot of students make the comment that they feel like most of the professors here are, are left-wing.
Student 13:Really? That’s honestly very surp — I’m not saying this —
Student 11:I can only think of one that told me they were a democrat.
Student 13:Yeah, literally, I can tell you two professors I’ve had that have been outspokenly liberal. And I can tell you of significantly more who have been outspokenly conservative. All wonderful people, I’m not saying that as a way to knock anyone’s character, or say, “Because I disagree with someone, I dislike them.” Um, I’ve had a lot of amazing profs that I disagreed with on big things. Um, but, for real, I’ve just had an incredibly different experience, and we’ve all taken the same gen-eds.
Trevor: Well, I would expect this school to be conservative because I know the school was founded as part of the holiness movement. And I know that requires really strict social conservatism as a philosophy, so, obviously, if you’re choosing to go here, I guess you must in some way, support the school’s, um, reason for coming to be, so, I assume.
Student 1: Okay, now I’ve probably lost about half of what I was going to say, but anyway, so I think that, too, we need to think about, not only this group and like the benefits that we have, but this group, like, the pros to this group would be that, like, it could help us to learn, um, self-defense. You know, like, physical self-defense. Um, I know, like, my brother taught me some. before I got here, but I know a lot of girls that do not, that have no idea. Um, I know girls who don’t know how to work a pepper spray thing, like, you know, um.
Student 4: We have a — also, just a little thing, we have self-defense classes here, also, like, if you didn’t know, you should sign up for them, ‘cause there are like fliers all over the place. ‘Cause I’ve actually ____ some of them, so we actually —
Student 14:And a club.
Trevor: Here’s my thing: a lot of people who are for guns don’t necessarily identify as right-wing. Um, when I was at UK, I met a student who was very far left and very pro-second amendment. So, um, believe it or not, there are actually gun, pro-gun groups that are, I would say, far left. So that’s another reason why not every student, just because they support the second amendment, necessarily wants to be part of some other, larger conservative group, like Young Americans for Freedom. They just support the second amendment and not much else.
Student 5: So just in terms of, like, logistics of the club — and this maybe isn’t the focus, so this maybe is like, isn’t even something y’all are interested in, but what if it was like, instead of second-amendment-advocacy or whatever, it was like, shooting sports, you know what I mean? Because that seems more, like, conducive to club activities and stuff like that.
Trevor: The NRA collegiate coalition, uh, program actually does include shooting sports. If students want to pursue that, they have it.
Student 5: I thought that would be, like, received less —
Trevor: But like I said, it’s a sport, so, like —
Student 5: Yes, so as a sport, instead of, like, a political advocacy group, but, maybe that is what you want, so maybe it’s a totally different thing, but, um, just an idea.
Student 3: Yeah, so I think two things. Just to kind of back up something you said. You said that there are studies that show that universities and college campuses are becoming much more liberal. I think that someone brought that up. That is factual, dialogue unclear so I think that it’s important to have, maybe not such clubs, but maybe such conversations, ‘cause we’re trying to reform an institution that enables us to grapple with the realities of the world, you know? But I think, too, that we’re sort of getting lost in the whole political mess again, and that’s not the point of why we’re here tonight. And, you know, again, Asbury, the beauty of what we are is that we are unique and we are distinctly Christian. And we’re not meant to be defined by these political categories. And I think that’s why we have all the crap that goes on out there, you know? Even today, you saw that in the posters that were posted by you guys and other people posted other things, and I think, if we’re not careful, we’ll end up going down that path and totally lose sight of where we’re supposed to be. But also, hopefully as Christians, who chose to come to an institution, we won’t lose sight of what it is we’re supposed to be doing. Um, so I think that something to keep in mind as we have this conversation. But I think, also, I just have to say, props to you guys for putting this on and for having the guts to come do this, ‘cause as you’ve rightly said, a whole bunch of us here were not necessarily coming to support but just ‘cause we’re curious. And I think the fact that you guys have the guts to do this shows that this is a conversation that we need to have, whether it’s through having this club actually put forward or whether it’s through other avenues through student government and sitting down to actually have these conversations as students. So, yeah, thank you, guys, for doing this.
Student 18:I just have some, like, I totally agree with what you’re saying, but like, one of the things, like to me, last year, um, like going through chapels and things like that, there was never a side for conservatives. Sometimes chapels, I don’t know if you guys agree with this, but sometimes chapels were, again, certain political views. But forming our own group, it could,you know, defend the second amendment. There was more things against what I believed, but nothing for it. Now, it wasn’t like, hysterically against right out what I believe, but, um, I mean, I remember chapels about, talking about police brutality was one of ‘em and things like that. And I know a friend who’s got a bunch of friends who are police officers, and he had to walk out because he just felt personally offended, and as, just as a person, I think a second amendment group would be great. Because not only, to the fact that it helps with our side, but, you guys saying that you could just talk about it, talk about it. Well we can start putting our foot in the door on certain things, like shooting sports, because there’s not really that activity. I mean, there’s archery but a little different. But, um, it’s just the same thing as any other club here, I think there’s a club for feminism in the church. Um, there was like meetings for that last year or something like that, I saw that on the sign. Um, and you know, it’s the same kind of principles as having that group where you can talk with people that you want to talk with ‘cause we can build that group, as you asking “Where are they?” Um, they could come out and see what this is, and once they know and see it, maybe that’s something that they would be really into hearing and seeing more of. And, like you were saying, bringing in speakers, I would love, I would love to come in and hear someone talk about guns. And I would also love to come and hear a debate because I mean, one of the reasons we’re at this school, as it is, like Asbury, is to challenge your personal views and challenge, you know, a debate, from both sides, would be awesome. So I think, just having a few from this side ‘cause I don’t really see that much here on this campus, and that’s just me personally. There could be a ton that I just haven’t seen yet.
Student 16:Yeah, I just think it’s funny you said that you don’t see much align with your beliefs ‘cause a lot of the liberal students here on campus have that same opinion. But I remember last year, on the social media accounts, you were the one commenting on the diversity chapels and things like that because you were feeling victimized by that, but, yeah, I just found that funny.
Student 18:Wait, why was that funny?
Student 4: So I, with that, let’s just remember that we’re doing everything out of love because we are all Christians. So, you know, I just, so are we wanting to create a club that, um, supports the second amendment, or are we wanting to create a club that supports conservative views? Because, um, I, you’re talking about it like, that you don’t, that you haven’t agreed with some of the chapels, which is completely understandable. Like, regardless of what political preference you have, you’re not gonna agree with all of them. Like, we all love to see, like diverse chapels, that’s something that I can definitely get behind, seeing diverse opinions in chapel. But are you wanting a club that supports your conservative views or just supports the second amendment? Because that also changes who is going to come to your club. Because, like you said, you said one of your friends walked out of the police brutality, so if you’re gonna have a club where you’re, like, anti-whatever that would be, you’re gonna have, less, like — you need to have a specific goal, like “This is what I believe; this is what this club supports” before we even come to talk about what this club is going to look like.
Student 18: And you going to that was the original question that we asked that got us into all of this, is what club we wanted to form.
Student 4: But those are all about just the second amendment—
Student 18: Yeah, so, that’s what we wanted to form, um, and that was the original question that he asked. And personally, the chapels I was offended with I didn’t say because I didn’t want to talk about it. They talked about, there was a spoken word where they said, they said stuff, and the police brutality was talking about second amendment and guns. And there was another one where they talked about mass shootings and things like that. The ones that they were coming out, blatantly saying that guns rights need to be put down.
Student 4: So, um, I, um, so, okay. Um, I don’t. Okay, yeah. So, um, regardless of what the chapels said, I understand what you’re saying. So, um, would you, would this be a, a space where we can strictly support the second amendment and support, like, having guns, whatever self defense it is, or is it strictly just these certain views because I, from what I’m hearing you say, is that we would support the second amendment, but we would also have more conservative views. And I feel like, so we need to know exactly what brought you all here.
Unspecified student: I mean, I’m totally — I think we’ve lost sight of the question at the beginning, which we should’ve probably moved more towards instead of where we are, but I think totally, if we picked one of the clubs, and then, going into the fact of, being completely open to left and right side, being totally cool with that. I think we’ve kind of digressed. I mean, you keep bringing back, “This isn’t a political conversation, this is about the club,” and I feel like, yeah, we’ve totally just digressed. But, as your question asked, what would this be? Well, this would be, um, Miss president, um, I think that’s more what we’d be voting on and agreeing on with the establishment of the club. So I think the establishment of the club would have been, first of all, the original question that got us all the way over here, is do we want Students for Concealed Carry or do we want this or that, one of the options that we were given in the very beginning, would also help form more of the discussion we came here to talk about. And then, instead of kind of like, how we’ve digressed into kind of more of a political conversation.
Student 15:So, um, I really feel like we’ve been here for an hour and a half, and it’s hit a point where this is now just becoming a discussion and kind of a debate. So I think the next steps that we should do is try to end the meeting, and if we want to have this conversation, then you can do it on your own terms, but as far as, if you want to write a proposal and start a club, please, go for it, and I think that this is a discussion that we can have in Asbury Student Congress. Um, but, as far as, I think, the time has come where this discussion might, might need to end. And if we want to continue this discussion, we should move forward to having a faculty or a staff member present next time.
Trevor: Well, like I said, this is a pro-second-amendment meeting, so the fact that y’all have tried to carry it into something else is not really our issue. If anybody would like to stay and decide what club or actually take part in a pro-second-amendment discussion, we can do that. Who here is actually interested in joining, like, a pro-second-amendment club?
Student 1: That’s why we wanted to have the meeting, I mean, it’s —
Trevor: We’re basically figuring out the process, and —
Student 1: We’re looking at the process, looking at what needs to be done, and it’s kind of “Who’s interested?”
Trevor: I mean, we could just choose a group, but we wanted to have input from other students.
Student 17:And I applaud that. I am not here taking a side at all. I came because of just serving on, like student congress, and I wanted to know what was happening. And I just feel like it’s turning into a different conversation, and I think now that it’s 10:30, we’ve been here an hour and a half, and maybe we schedule another meeting, and you have some, some type of Asbury faculty or staff member present; I think that is just a good avenue, and then maybe pick up the discussion at a different time.
Student 9: Just kind of a chance to clear the room and take a second step upon what [Student 17] was saying but from a totally different perspective. As a Christian at a Christian campus, when we see kind of the spirit of offense descend and start to tear people apart and make opinions a little more delineated than I think they should be, um, I think this comes down to a misappropriation of identity. When we identify ourselves, um, with either our political belief, um, our racial heritage, background, or socioeconomic means or so on and so forth, rather than something, I think, a little more substantial, like the fact that we are children of God. We start to come into these awkward situations where a club appearing on campus offends people as if there are clubs that don’t already exist that offend people. Our job here isn’t to be offended but to gain a different facet of understanding that we didn’t previously have. And the existence of one more club, I don’t think would necessarily hurt that. So, for those that did come to gain information, I do applaud you. For those that came to picket, I do ask these questions, um: Where is your identity being appropriated at? Is your offense coming at this meeting from a place that maybe you need to bring before God?
Student 4: You, um, I understand where you’re coming from, but you also cannot invalidate the way that someone feels.
Student 9: I’m not invalidating.
Student 4: Because, just like they have the right to come to make this club, other people have the right to come to the club. And, um, even though we are Christians, I do find my identity in who I am. I am a Christian, but I am also a black woman. And just because I feel strongly about my opinions does not make — and I wanted to come here to get your perspective — does not make me any less, my opinion any less. Like I understand where you’re coming from, but you also can’t point a finger at people for just coming to want to get another perspective because even if they came here with a bad intention, they still came here to listen. And, um, as a Christian, to point a finger at them is also as bad as them coming here and doing it.
Student 9: I’m not pointing a finger, [Student 4].
Student 4: So I understand where you’re coming from, and I think we’re all just getting a little, like, steamed. Just remember that we’re doing everything that we do out of love.
Student 9: Exactly.
Student 4: ‘Cause even though I may not agree with his opinion or their political preferences, I still love them all the same.
Student 9: I do feel a little misunderstood. I’m sorry. I’m simply saying, I would love to move forward with understanding where the club would like to go, um, outside of groups that maybe would be offended at the appearance of a club like this on campus. Um, not because — we’ve had talks. I respect your opinions, I honestly do. Um, it’s just, I would hate to see the freedoms of other people, um, cut short simply because other people’s freedoms are not being exercised in other respective areas.
Student 3: I think it’d be helpful to probably conclude this so that people who want to hear more about the club can meet inside. Indistinguishable dialogue
Student 7: I have a question for the student congress people. Um, again, ‘cause with forming a club, like I have no idea, but um, if we also get support from, uh, Asbury alumni people — like, I know that you said that we have to have a, a professor and obviously students, but can’t we also have support from other people that have went to Asbury, like is that, uh…
Student 15: Yeah, you can have all the support you want. You just have to have a faculty member be your advisor for a club.
Student 7: Okay, ‘cause I already have uh, four Asbury alumni people who are like, “Yes, let’s do it.”
Student 1: Okay, so I guess you’ll be our last question, and then we’ll go ahead and conclude the meeting, and if you’re actually interested in helping us plan an organization that we want to try to follow through and see, and follow through with the process to start, then if you wouldn’t mind staying just a little bit, all we’re gonna do is take a vote, and then after that, then you’re free to go. If you feel like discussing more, that’s fine, but we’ll get your question and then we’ll conclude the meeting and take the vote.
Student 11:Yeah, I don’t wanna prolong anything, but all I want to say is that I think I would agree with [omitted] (sic) that if there is another meeting like this, there should be a faculty or a staff member, just in terms of a moderator, because there has been a lot of cutting in and interrupting on both sides. And if you want a civil discussion, there should really be someone who is able to moderate all of that.
Trevor: Well, I would say, in the future, we probably wouldn’t have it as, you know, non-pro-gun. Because, like I said, it’s a, it’s an issue advocacy student organization. It’s like having a pro-life group having people defending abortion. I mean, you can do that in some settings. Like, you wanna have a debate, you can do a debate. But you can’t really get anything done with a meeting if you want it to just be open to everybody, all sides arguing and not —
Student 4: But they’re allowed to come to the club, even if they don’t agree. Am I correct?
Student 15:They have to be, according to ASC.
Student 4: So these people could still come and sit into the club, because we’re allowed to do that.
Student 1: Then we’ll have kind of a stance, and unlike — I mean, this is a very, very informal type meeting because we don’t know the avenue that we’re trying to chase down. So the point of this meeting was to be, like, “What’s our main goal that Asbury is, um, kind of unknown word?” Like, what is a need that we could fill? At least, for me. So yeah, we will welcome anyone into the club, even if you don’t agree with it, but our main points are gonna remain true, that we are pro-second-amendment, and if you don’t agree, we’ll welcome you in, but that way we can have more unified beliefs. And it’s not kind of one vs. one vs. one vs. one. But you guys have been here forever, um, we really appreciate it, I don’t want to keep you any longer. I know we have midterms, so we’re gonna have a quick meeting. And, I mean, I really thank you guys for coming, asking questions.
